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June 27th, 2017, 08:43 AM #1

Tibs is offline Senior Member
 
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Default EOI: Orchestra-90 Bare Bone Board or Fully Assembled

Ok, I put the items in a BOM to find out how much this would cost to do.

For the Orchestra-90:

I can sell the boards for less than $10 without any postage for US, I think its $7 a board if a big enough order.

Assembled I can sell for $45. That's pretty much leaving around $5 for intangibles and solder and other things. Shipping shouldn't be more than $7 in the US.

If there is enough interest, I'll kick out a medium sized order and can start putting them together in 3-4 weeks once I get them. I have a few people who requested the board itself, and if people think thats worth it I'll go for it. If not, I'll shoot out the extra boards to those who just wanted them first.

The most expensive item is the edge connectors...man they are expensive, $3.40 each.

I can do batches of 10 easily.

June 28th, 2017, 05:59 AM #9

Tibs is offline Senior Member
 
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Default

I'm rereading his message as well and understand the language barrier. I speak French, well, I butcher it due to a lack of use buts I don't have to go through translate to use his site.

The copyright notice states as long as its not for profit its ok and no auction pricing, etc. I took that literally down to tracking every cost I incurred to make sure I respected his wishes plus to prevent giving them away at a loss. I didn't touch the notice on the board either, due to respect for his work and not sure thats what upset him. I could argue its still at a loss but I get value out of the time I spend doing this through stress relief.

These things aren't in high demand from what I can gauge so I doubt anyone could make money off them if they tried, but given the state of prices on eBay I wouldn't be surprised if people tried to sell them for $200 by putting up the obligatory RARE/Vintage/Hard to Find!!!!

I am building one newclock/80 for myself on a machine that I don't plan to use a FreHD or M3SE on and three ORC-90s for my three computers that can use them. Since the chips were hard to find I was even going to offer to include them if people wanted them at $1.50 a pop for the Orc/90, not sure what the cost on the NC80 is, I think its closer to 5 for that RTC.

As you know, increasing the size of a PCB order cuts the costs in half, but I don't need 13, and wanted a spare. It was kind of a I'll throw these together or sell the extra boards at cost. I expected maybe one or two people to want the extras. I got more than that but enough to justify 10 and still have a few left over.

Thats why I said I can easily do batches of 10. I'm not going to do more than one run, but being able to increase the number I build to lower the cost for all sure sounds like the right thing to do for all. I just wanted to be sure 10 would be enough since I can increase the number before I press order.

 

Dear P.H,

You have received a new private message at Vintage Computer Forum from pski, entitled "Post deletion".

To read the original version, respond to, or delete this message, you must log in here:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/private.php

This is the message that was sent:
***************
Pascal, sorry but I had to delete your last post as it came across as much 
too rude. We need to be careful when throwing this kind of criticism when
 it seems there is quite a gap due to the language translation.
***************

Again, please do not reply to this email. You must go to the following page 
to reply to this private message:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/private.php

All the best,
Vintage Computer Forum


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    This is indeed unfortunate. Segmenting our knowledge base like this, locking up schematics in silos, is not good for the whole community (and I'm not talking just about the VCFed forum community, I'm talking about the whole community of Model II-series owners).

    This is one reason I appreciate Pete's use of github for the model2archive, as it is really open and anyone can clone the entire repository and have everything with easy access. Archives, in my opinion, should be easy to replicate; we still don't have the marmotking archive back, for instance, and that archive had many files and documents that simply were not available anywhere else.

    As much as I appreciate Pascal's contributions, and as much as I understand him being from a very different culture, speaking/writing a different language, etc, and as much as I understand his health issues I have to wonder about the wisdom of sending him potentially one-of-a-kind items for reverse engineering. It pains me to write that, as he has done some really great work with Hans, Ian, and others, and I mean absolutely no disrespect writing it. But I have no desire to send any unique items, documents, or whatnot to be locked-up out of reach of the community-at-large. That's one reason I sent my one LS-DOS 6.2.0beta for Model II disk to Pete; I knew it would go into github, and then easily be cloned all over, really shared with the community.

    --
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    Shut her down Scotty, she's sucking mud again!
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    lowen,
    That was stated perfectly, and I agree 100%. Maybe Pascal will have a change of heart and continue to help the community, versus
    trying to punish 99% of the VCF folks for what 1% did. I'm sure there are others out there that have created PCB's for the TRS-80
    computers, and then shared that work the same as Ian, JonB, Mark, and others I've forgotten at the moment. In fact I'm getting ready
    to supply some Edge Card Connector to 3.5" Floppy Adapter boards for the folks here at VCF for a minimum price. As long as I can recover
    postage and parts without going heavily in debt. I don't expect to get rich from the sales, but rather help folks make easy interfaces
    at the Adapter Board.

    THANKS Pascal for your Hard Work.

    Larry

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  4. Today, 07:50 AM

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    Default

    Thanks Larry. I just wish I could communicate better with him, with idioms from his culture, and help reconcile him with this community. 'Give him a big hug' figuratively speaking; I read his post about his health issues, and I empathize with him. But I cannot adequately express that, since I'm not fluent in French and Google translate is inadequate.

    In any case, this doesn't help Hans in his quest for more Model 12 information, and I would far prefer to be helpful than to inadvertently cause offense.

    But, and I say this having been in the 'big-boned Tandy' community for a long time (28 years), I do get frustrated with a silo mentality when it comes to information. That's one of the things I miss most about David Dalager; I've not corresponded with very many who were as willing to share information as he was. I likewise sorely miss Guy Omer, who was the 'sharingest' BBS Sysop of the day. And I wish I had more time to write down and share some of the information I have available; that's part of the reason I post here.

     

    Dear P.H,

You have received a new private message at Vintage Computer Forum from Tibs, entitled "Apology".

To read the original version, respond to, or delete this message, you must log in here:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/private.php

This is the message that was sent:
***************
Pascal,
     Veuillez accepter mes excuses pour cela vous causant tout problème. Mes intentions ne devaient jamais être vendues comme un moyen de réduire les coûts si je pouvais obtenir suffisamment d'entrainement dans les suppléments puisque je n'avais pas assez de conseils pour moi. Je n'ai jamais commandé autre chose que les tableaux de bord et j'ai dit à tous ceux qui se sont approchés dans les PM. Je respecterai vos voeux et j'aurais abandonné le projet.

J'avais lu vos droits d'auteur et j'ai compris que je ne rompais aucun de vos souhaits parce que ce n'était pas pour proffit et seulement pour aider les autres aussi bien que moi-même tout en ne perdant pas tout mon investissement.

Veuillez ne pas punir la communauté en raison d'un malentendu. Je n'ai jamais eu l'intention de vous offenser ou de profiter de votre charité gracieuse.

Je suis toujours confus de savoir comment cela s'est produit, parce que nous parlions dans le fil où j'ai construit le premier et j'ai dit que je vendrais les extras dont je n'avais pas besoin.

Encore une fois, acceptez mes excuses.

    Dear P.H,

Tibs has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - EOI: Orchestra-90 Bare Bone Board or Fully Assembled - in the Tandy/Radio Shack forum of Vintage Computer Forum.

This thread is located at:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?58421-EOI-Orchestra-90-Bare-Bone-Board-or-Fully-Assembled&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
I never ordered any thats the thing.  I just did the quick sample to see if it worked.  

I'm still at a loss on this whole thing.  

   1. I said I'd respect his wishes.  
   2. I wanted to see if more people were interested before I ordered the rest, so I could reduce all the costs for everyone involved.
   3. His files were made publicly available and I respected what was in his copyright message (which ironically is a copy of a design in the first place).
   4. Nothing was being put up on eBay, nothing was being made for profit, and before people said they wanted one they needed to know what it would cost to get them.   I don't need or want the profits, I have a career and still plenty of years left working, its a weekend kill time when its raining thing to me.
   5. He was helping me in the thread where I started this whole thing, and I never hid that I would sell the extras to those here who wanted them.   I asked who all would want them, and wham I'm evil

I give up, seriously, this really just disappoints the hell out of me.   

To those who have helped me over the time and I have helped, thank you.   Wish I could have given you guys more back.
***************


There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

All the best,
Vintage Computer Forum

    Le médiateur du site VCF

    Pascal,
     
    Of course your work is greatly appreciated.  But, do you understand why Lamar and others feel that way?  Upon one criticism you immediately shut down everyone's rights to use any of your works for all time.  That does not foster a feeling of openness and sharing.

    Pete


    On Sep 15, 2017, at 10:21 AM, Pascal HOLDRY <pascal.holdry@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
     
    Un autre site qui pille
     
    Web Site of Sydtrug Inc.
     Sydney TRS-80/MS-DOS Users' Group
    C/- Peter Wignell PO Box 95 Narwee NSW  2209
    AUSTRALIA    		 

    Google Translate (Original English version follows)
     
     Bonjour Pascal,
         Mes excuses si notre site internet vous a dérangé.
         Nous n'avons pas l'intention de "publier sur votre site des articles sous copyright sans autorisation". Les liens étaient destinés à faciliter l'accès de notre bibliothèque en ligne à d'autres sites sur le Web, ainsi que des copies de sauvegarde des fichiers lorsque le site original finit par disparaître.
         Je n'ai pas eu le temps de terminer la page Web et le script automatisé donne le lien de sauvegarde au lieu du lien direct vers votre site Web.
         Comme vous l'avez peut-être déjà remarqué, ces liens de sauvegarde ne sont accessibles qu'aux connexions autorisées, et non au grand public.
         Si vous le souhaitez, je supprimerai tous les liens et copies de sauvegarde de vos fichiers depuis notre site Web.
     
         Bien que vous essayez d'obtenir la permission de travailler, j'essaie d'avoir du temps pour travailler / jouer avec mon passe-temps (ordinateurs TRS-80) au lieu de travailler 24x7 sur mon ordinateur et les affaires de réparation de réseau de bureau.
         Normalement, je reçois seulement 1 (un) jour par mois pour TRS-80 (la réunion SYDTRUG), donc je suis généralement assez lent pour répondre aux courriels liés au loisir.
     
         Notre groupe d'ordinateurs (SYDTRUG inc) a récemment mis en place une catégorie "Membre complémentaire" pour notre site web (www.sydtrug.org) et est en train d'offrir un accès gratuit aux personnes qui ont contribué au TRS-80 / Video Genie Le soutien et le développement afin qu'ils puissent l'utiliser pour favoriser ce soutien et ce développement.
         Nous sommes très reconnaissants de vos efforts pour aider à reproduire des add-ons qui ne sont plus disponibles auprès des fournisseurs d'origine et sont heureux de vous donner accès.
         Je vous enverrai un e-mail séparé avec vos informations de connexion.
     
         J'ai donné au conseil d'administration CISA HiRes-80 PCG et à la carte Orcim Systems PCG-80 (modèle TRS-80 modèle I) à Gazza pour la photographie et pour lui organiser la livraison.
         Il n'y a pas de PAL ou de GAL sur ces panneaux. Ils ont été fabriqués avant que ces copeaux ne soient conçus.
         Nous n'avons pas encore trouvé une version modèle III du complément PCG-80 d'Orcim Systems, et la seule version System-80 / Video Genie que nous avons est encore utilisée. Avec le temps, j'espère que cela vous enverra.
     
         Je ne sais pas pourquoi Gazza ne vous a pas encore fourni une adresse postale pour les conseils que vous avez proposé d'envoyer.
         Ils peuvent être envoyés à l'adresse postale SYDTRUG: -
              Sydney TRS-80 / Groupe d'utilisateurs MS-DOS
             C / - Peter Wignell CP 95 Narwee NSW 2209
     
         J'ai maintenant plusieurs scanners de documents à haute vitesse et j'ai parcouru la plupart de mes informations de conception pour le «Doubleur non identifié» et c'est l'interface de disque et d'imprimante interne System-80 / Video Genie associée. Quand j'aurai du temps, je les ajouterai à notre site Web et vous enverrai des copies.
     
         Avez-vous contacté Don McKenzie (don@dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com) sur le tableau GENDON que vous montrez sur votre site web.
         Il peut encore avoir les conceptions originales pour elle et beaucoup d'autres compléments TRS-80 qu'il a créés dans la période 1980-1990.
         Il peut également ne pas vouloir que vous "publiez sur les articles de votre site sous son copyright sans autorisation".
     
     Cordialement,
     Errol Rosser
     Coordinateur de matériel, rédacteur en chef et bibliothécaire (et Assistant Webmaster)
     SYDTRUG Inc.
     Www.sydtrug.org
     0418-675-768
     +61 418-675-768
     
     
     (Original English version)
     
     Hi Pascal,
         My apologies if our web site has upset you.
         We are not intending to "published on your site articles under my copyright without authorization". The links were intended to provide an easy access from our on-line library to other sites on the web, as well as backup copies of the files when the original site eventually disappears.
         I have not had time to finish the web page and the automated script is giving the backup link instead of the direct link to your web site.
         As you may have already noticed, these backup links are only accessible to authorised logins, not general public.
         If you wish, I will remove all the links and backup copies of your files from our web site.
     
         While you may be trying to get permission to work, I am trying to get time to work/play with my hobby (TRS-80 computers) instead of working 24x7 on my computer and office network repair business.
         I normally only get 1 (one) day per month for TRS-80 stuff (the SYDTRUG meeting), so I am usually quite slow in getting to reply to hobby related emails.
     
         Our computer group (SYDTRUG inc) has recently set up a "Complementary member" category for our web site (www.sydtrug.org) and are in the process of providing free access to people who have contributed to the TRS-80/Video Genie support and development so they can use it to further that support and development.
         We are greatly appreciative of your efforts in helping reproduce add-ons that are no longer available from the original suppliers and are happy to give you access.
         I will send you a separate email with your login details.
     
         I have given the CISA HiRes-80 PCG board and the Orcim Systems PCG-80 (TRS-80 Model I version) board to Gazza for photographing and for him to arrange shipping to you.
         There is no PAL or GAL on these boards. They were made before those chips were designed.
         We have not yet found a Model III version of the Orcim Systems PCG-80 add-on, and the only System-80/Video Genie version we have is still in use. In time, I expect to get this to send to you.
     
         I don't know why Gazza has not yet provided you with a postal address for the boards you have offered to send.
         They can be sent to the SYDTRUG mailing address :-
              Sydney TRS-80/MS-DOS Users' Group
             C/- Peter Wignell PO Box 95 Narwee NSW  2209
     
         I now have several high speed document scanners and have scanned most of my design info for the "Doubleur non identifié" and it's associated System-80/Video Genie internal disk & printer interface. When I have some time, I will give add them to our web site, and send copies to you.
     
         Have you contacted Don McKenzie (don@dontronics.com  http://www.dontronics.com) about the GENDON board you show on your web site.
         He may still have the original designs for it and many of the other TRS-80 add-ons he created in the 1980-1990 period.
         He may also not want you to "publish on your site articles under his copyright without authorization".
     
     Regards,
     Errol Rosser
     Hardware Coordinator, Editor and Librarian (and Assistant Webmaster)
     SYDTRUG Inc.
     www.sydtrug.org
     0418-675-768
     +61 418-675-768
    -------- Original Message --------
    Subject: published on your site articles under my copyright without authorization
    From: Pascal HOLDRY <pascal.holdry@wanadoo.fr>;
    To: pres@sydtrug.org, vp@sydtrug.org, editor@sydtrug.org, hwcoord@sydtrug.org, Ian Mavric <ianmav@netspace.net.au>;, 'hans' <hans@rietveldcomputers.nl>;, Gazza <gazzajh@optusnet.com.au>;, Christian Schreuder <schreuderchristian@hotmail.com>;, Peter Cetinski <pete@pski.net>;, irag@trs-80.com, Fred Jan Kraan <fjkraan@xs4all.nl>;, Knut Roll-lund <kr-lund@online.no>;, Nels Olsen <nels_p_olsen@yahoo.com>;
    Date: 20/08/2017 18:27
    f5d88b96-6a96-5bb2-5267-93ad1b1b0ccb@wanadoo.fr" type="cite">

    Bonjour,

    Web Site of Sydtrug Inc.
     Sydney TRS-80/MS-DOS Users' Group
    C/- Peter Wignell PO Box 95 Narwee NSW  2209
    AUSTRALIA

    Google Translate

    Hello,
    It seems to me that you have published on your site articles under my copyright without authorization recognizable by their names and in French with the files Gerbers and schema contained in the files .ZIP and .PDF
    I would be grateful if you would regularize the situation giving me at least a free access on your site and a reciprocal exchange of information that some of your members refuse me as the HIRES cards for M1 (    See AttachmentCordialement)
    My successive emails to GAZZA and Errol Rosser remaining unanswered
    Cordialement
    Pascal HOLDRY

    Il me semble que vous avez publié sur votre site des articles sous mon copyright sans autorisation reconnaissable par leurs noms et en Français avec les fichiers Gerbers et schéma contenu dans les fichiers .ZIP et .PDF
    Je vous serais reconnaissant de bien vouloir régulariser la situation en me donnant pour le moins un libre accès sur votre site et une réciproque d'échange d'information que certains de vos membres me refusent comme les cartes HIRES pour M1 (voir pièces jointes)
    Mes courriels successifs à GAZZA et Errol Rosser restant sans réponse
    Cordialement
    Pascal HOLDRY

    Example: http://sydtrug.org/library/hardware/default.asp?section=Hardware
    DoubleurAEROCOMP .pdf 1 67 KB    09/08/2013 12:32
    DoubleurAEROCOMP .zip 1 440 KB    09/08/2013 12:33
    DoubleurGenie .pdf 1 49 KB    09/08/2013 12:32
    DoubleurGenie .zip 1 143 KB    09/08/2013 12:32
    DoubleurLNW80_3-5-8 .pdf 1 75 KB    09/08/2013 12:32
    DoubleurLNW80_3-5-8 .zip 1 567 KB    09/08/2013 12:32
    DoubleurPercomIIA .pdf 1 60 KB    09/08/2013 12:32
    DoubleurPercomIIA

    .........etc!!!!!!

    Garanti sans virus. www.avast.com





    ....etc

 

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